Lucie Isle (00:00):

In this episode of Forgive Me, Lucie, there is reference to drug use and sexual activity. Listener discretion is advised.

Lucie Isle:

Name

Zane Brightwell (00:13):

Zane Brightwell. 

Lucie Isle:

Occupation 

Zane Brightwell:

Drag artist and icon

Lucie Isle:

And what brings you to my confession box today Zane? 

Zane Brightwell (00:25):

I need you to forgive me, Lucie, for I have sinned. 

Lucie Isle (00:42):

Welcome, Zane. Come take a seat in my confession box. It's very large on the inside 

Zane Brightwell:

Like a Tardis 

Lucie Isle (00:48):

And other intellectual property. Also, it's actually quite small. On the inside I find squeeze up. Squeeze up

Zane Brightwell (00:55):

We can come in together. 

Lucie Isle (00:56):

I need to be able to hear you as you whisper your confessions to me. I'm Lucie Isle and welcome to Forgive me, Lucie. The comedy podcast where I decide whether to send my guest to their own personal heaven or hell. Now Zane has entered my confession box. I'm going to ask them to reveal their innermost secrets, which showcase their very best and absolute worst sides. What have you brought to me today? I'm going to appear into your soul and see what you like. What kind of person are you? Zane? 

Zane Brightwell (01:24):

What kind of person? I'm a great person. I'm very nice. I never cause any drama. 

Lucie Isle (01:28):

Is there any sarcasm in there at all? 

Zane Brightwell (01:31):

I don't speak sarcasm ever. 

Lucie Isle (01:34):

Perfect. I'll just take you completely at face value. Whatever you say then yes. You're not a little bit of a bitch, are you? 

Zane Brightwell (01:40):

Only when I need to be then I think that that's just helping people. I'm just giving people advice in a stern way that they'll be able to hear, understand, and remember. 

Lucie Isle (01:49):

Very curious, very cryptic thinks we might have a little bit of a prick on our hands. 

Zane Brightwell (01:55):

Yeah, probably. There's not a little prick though

Lucie Isle (01:58):

Very impressive. Okay, well this is a confession box. That little hole there is for handing me messages. It's not for anything else. Okay? I don't want to see anything slipping through it.

Zane Brightwell (02:07):

Well I can't make any promises. 

Lucie Isle (02:08):

Glory be. 

So Zane before I decide whether to send you to heaven or hell. I need to work out what your personal heaven and your personal hell looks like. What does your idea of your own personal hell look like to you? What really grinds your gears? 

Zane Brightwell (02:22):

Children. I think everyone should be born 18 years old and upwards or maybe 25 and upwards. If I was in hell, there'd be children screaming and running around with their snotty hands and it wouldn't make me laugh when they fell over. That's the only joy a child brings me is when they're falling over. So yeah, I think, yeah, surrounded by children as hell. Horrible. 

Lucie Isle (02:43):

Are they clawing at you with their snotty fingers? Are they hurling half chewed rusks at you? What goes on? Is that it? Just children? 

Zane Brightwell (02:50):

Yeah, just like a playground. That's what it'd be because you can hear 'em everywhere. It's just the screams and screams of children all the way up to 18 years old. Even more annoying when they're a bit older. 

Lucie Isle (03:00):

What's the optimal terrible age? 

Zane Brightwell (03:02):

The worst age? Probably in between five and 10. They're getting in the brain to be a bit of a dickhead. Do you know what I mean? That they can play with you then and I don't like that.

Lucie Isle (03:11):

Right. So once they get a little bit of self-awareness, a little bit of little of sass, once they can actually talk back. 

Zane Brightwell (03:18):

Yeah, when they could out sass me, that's when I've got a problem. 

Lucie Isle (03:20):

And what five year olds are capable of out sassing you 

Zane Brightwell (03:23):

When they could try and out sass me, I've got a problem. 

Lucie Isle (03:28):

And on the flip side, if I was to send you to heaven today, what would that look like? 

Zane Brightwell (03:32):

Sexy men everywhere we'd be somewhere really warm and it'd be like a beach, but no sand because I hate sand because it gets in between your toes. So it'd be like a sand free beach and just sexy men covered in hair and muscles everywhere. And it doesn't matter how many times I shag them I'll never get the STI. 

Lucie Isle (03:52):

So what does a sand free beach look like, by the way? What is it?  

Zane Brightwell (03:55):

Well, it looks like sand, but it just hasn't got that texture of sand. Do you not just hate the way sand feels? It's horrible. It gets in everywhere. It's in the nooks and crannies and when you get wet and it gets on you and it's there forever. Nah, no thank you. 

Lucie Isle (04:06):

Maybe we should put some sand in your hell. It's children in a sandbox playground. 

Zane Brightwell (04:10):

Oh, I hate that. 

Lucie Isle (04:11):

And the sand sticks to you 

Zane Brightwell (04:13):

Setting my senses off already. 

Lucie Isle (04:15):

I think we've just upgraded your own personal hell there. Thank you for spilling that. That's perfect. But there won't be any sand in your sexy man paradise. 

Zane Brightwell (04:23):

No, you'll see sand. You just won't feel it. It's magic. We're in heaven. It's not real. 

Lucie Isle (04:27):

Yeah. Okay. I don't make the rules, I just send you there. Okay. And just one more thing. If you never get the STI in your own personal heaven, does everyone else have STIs though? 

Zane Brightwell (04:38):

No. There's no such thing in heaven. Well maybe their fear is, I dunno, better flavour and everyone else catching it. There's not come past someone to me that'd be great because they'll be really upset with each other. That make me the star of the show, wouldn't it? That’s just going somewhere I did not think it was going to go. 

Lucie Isle (04:56):

So there you are surrounded by STI riddled sad people to comfort themselves in eternity. Have to shag you. 

Zane Brightwell:

Yeah. Okay, heaven. 

Lucie Isle:

Yeah, that doesn't sound good to me, but whatever makes you happy babe. 

And so now it's time for you to deceive me. So you've brought me an envelope containing one confession. Oh, but wait, it's deviously disguised with two cleverly concocted lies. Let's see how devilish you really are. Yes, it's time for one confession and two lies. 

Zane Brightwell (05:37):

Okay. So when I was an escort, I was booked by celebrity. I slept with 21 people in one night and I've had sex in a church. 

Lucie Isle (05:45):

So those are the three things. Well, they're all very believable. Could you take me through the first one again? 

Zane Brightwell (05:50):

I was booked by celebrity when I was an escort. 

Lucie Isle (05:52):

Okay, what kind of celebrity was it? 

Zane Brightwell (05:54):

Well, I can't say because I had to sign an NDA. 

Lucie Isle (05:56):

You had to sign NDA. That's convenient. That's very convenient. I'm sure you can reveal a couple of details. 

Zane Brightwell (06:02):

They work in television. 

Lucie Isle (06:03):

Any genres? Can you help me out? They're on 

Zane Brightwell (06:07):

They're on quite a primetime TV television show 

Lucie Isle (06:09):

Now, I dunno for legal reasons I can name any but were they kicked off Good Morning Britain. 

Zane Brightwell (06:14):

No, I'm not that young. 

Lucie Isle:

Can we say that? 

Zane Brightwell:

Jesus. 

Lucie Isle (06:24):

Okay. So when you were booked with the celebrity, how did you feel? 

Zane Brightwell (06:28):

Well, I felt great, but when I did escorting as a job, you have to treat everybody the same. That's kind of part of the job. So it's just a customer. Just a customer that's come to the little shop of me. 

Lucie Isle (06:38):

So when you meet up with this person, do you meet up in the back of a limo or do you meet up at a corner shop or a kebab shop or in a pond? What happens? 

Zane Brightwell (06:46):

It wasn't quite Pretty Women, but it was a nice hotel below. It was definitely not Richard Gear. But yeah, it was a nice hotel. I met them there and I did it in drag as well. So I was in some gorgeous negligee.  

Lucie Isle (06:55):

Where was the hotel?

Zane Brightwell (06:55):

In London.

Lucie Isle (06:57):

Did it have a good view? 

Zane Brightwell (06:59):

It had a gorgeous view. 

Lucie Isle (07:00):

Tell me about the view 

Zane Brightwell (07:02):

It was of the River Thames. I could see the Big Ben from the room 

Lucie Isle (07:05):

And did it sound like this? Dum Dum Dum (Eastenders theme)… Well that's your time up! 

Zane Brightwell (07:12):

A little bit like that. Yeah. 

Lucie Isle (07:15):

The penthouse pyjama party. What's your next confession or lie? 

Zane Brightwell (07:20):

Oh, I had sex with 21 people in one night. 

Lucie Isle (07:23):

I mean that I can believe, but I mean how does one go about having sex with 21 people in one night? 

Zane Brightwell (07:29):

So it's when I was living in Gran Canaria and there was this lovely, lovely establishment called Bunker and on the top floor it had a nice circular bed that spun around a lazy Susan, if you will, and I just laid there. 

Lucie Isle (07:39):

So you were kind of like a human sushi bar? 

Zane Brightwell:

Yeah.

Lucie Isle:

I'm presuming men. 

Zane Brightwell:

Yes, the men would just roll up on a conveyor belt. 

Lucie Isle:

You'd pick whichever one you want, keep the pants, and then depending on the colour of the pants at the end of the night. 

Zane Brightwell (07:53):

I did the tally at the end. 

Lucie Isle (07:55):

Tell me about your time in Grand Canaria. What did you do when you were there? 

Zane Brightwell (07:58):

I was a drag performer there, but a go-go dancer. And the club that I worked for was outside the Bunker Club, so when I used to finish work at three, I'd go in the club would be open until late in the morning. So I had to go in there for free afterwards and I did that every night for most of the time I was living there, which is why I had to come home 

Lucie Isle (08:15):

Was 21 your record? 

Zane Brightwell:

Yeah. 

Lucie Isle:

So you're not picking just your median amount, your usual 21. Oh yeah, but that's not even the most, 

Zane Brightwell (08:23):

No, 21 is the record. 

Lucie Isle (08:24):

And how did you count? 

Zane Brightwell (08:25):

Well, I can count. I know I look very stupid, but I've got a brain for counting 

Lucie Isle (08:29):

But like by 12, 13, 14 people and they all sort of blend together. 

Zane Brightwell (08:34):

No, I've got a very good memory when it comes to my men.

Lucie Isle (08:38):

Then did you have a system on the way in and on the way out? Was it all at once? How did it work?

Zane Brightwell (08:43):

It was mostly all at once. I kind of counted each one and I could recall afterwards as well. 

Lucie Isle (08:47):

Are you good at remembering faces or is that not how you remember?

Zane Brightwell (08:49):

I'm great remembering faces, not remembering names, couldn't tell any names of the people, but I learn their faces can still picture them now. Gorgeous. 

Lucie Isle (08:56):

What was your last confession or lie that you've brought me today? 

Zane Brightwell (09:00):

It was, I had sex in a church. 

Lucie Isle (09:03):

What kind of church? 

Zane Brightwell (09:04):

A churchy church. What do you mean? What kind of church is it? What kinds of one? 

Lucie Isle (09:09):

Did you know the denomination? 

Zane  Brightwell:

It was like Protestant, or Catholic. 

Lucie Isle:

Was there a congregation?

Zane Brightwell (09:14):

It was empty. It was quite late at night, but the door was open so there could have maybe been somebody there, but we snuck in and it was in a little small town.  

Lucie Isle (09:23):

Where was the town? 

Zane Brightwell (09:25):

Dereham, not far from here. 

Lucie Isle (09:25):

What were you doing in a church? 

Zane Brightwell (09:27):

Well, we just thought it'd be fun. We were in the local area and I thought this would be ironic. So we went into the church. 

Lucie Isle (09:33):

Oh, why would it be ironic? Was the person excommunicated or something? 

Zane Brightwell (09:36):

But I'm an atheist. No I'm not. I'm here to get forgiveness. I'm not an atheist at all. 

Lucie Isle (09:42):

You are a what?! That's fine. You don't need to believe in God to go to heaven or hell not with me. Where exactly in the church did it all happen? 

Zane Brightwell (09:49):

It is at the back, behind the back of the pews so that the door was central in the middle and there's all the chairs and that was right at the back. 

Lucie Isle (09:56):

How did you get into the church at night? 

Zane Brightwell (09:58):

The door was open. 

Lucie Isle (09:59):

It was just open? 

Zane Brightwell (10:00):

It was just open 

Lucie Isle (10:01):

Dereham church open 24/7. 

Zane Brightwell (10:03):

For those people that need to have a little pray 

Lucie Isle (10:05):

A little pray. Did you get on your knees?

Zane Brightwell (10:06):

Always on my knees. 

Lucie Isle (10:07):

On your knees and spray. 

Zane Brightwell (10:08):

Yeah. And that's it. 

Lucie Isle (10:10):

I hope you left the holy water alone. You didn't wash off in that or something, did you?

Zane Brightwell (10:13):

Now, that'd be telling. 

Lucie Isle (10:14):

Remind me never to go to church in Dereham. I don't go to church anyway. I mean of course I do. It is my job. 

(10:22)
I shall be changing the holy water after this. Yes. And other church paraphernalia of that nature, of which I'm very familiar. So we've got sex with a celeb, we've got 21 times in one night or we have sex in a church. These are all incredibly believable from what I've heard about you saying. But the thing is you could have basically done any of them and just change minor details. Like you could have had a wank in a church, you could have had sex with 22 people in one night, or you could have shagged. Well yes, you could have shagged celebrity, but maybe there was a tiny lie in this story that I wasn't aware of. Maybe you didn't shag the celebrity, maybe the celebrity shagged you. I'm going to go for 21 people in one night. 

Zane Brightwell (11:08):

You are correct. That is the true one. 

Lucie Isle (11:11):

That's the true one. So what about the others? Is there any truth to those stories? 

Zane Brightwell (11:15):

Not quite. I didn't have sex in a church, but I did have sex in the vicars driveway. 

Lucie Isle (11:21):

Oh, was the vicar at home?

Zane Brightwell (11:23):

He might've been. He had a big house and I just thought it'd be funny. 

Lucie Isle (11:28):

Have you ever had sex with a celeb? 

Zane Brightwell (11:29):

I have had sex with a celebrity, not as a client. Sex with a couple of celebrities. 

Lucie Isle (11:33):

Oh, it was on pleasure, not business. 

Zane Brightwell:

Yeah. 

Lucie Isle:

Fantastic. I picked out the truth. The truth is known to me now so I can see into your soul. Yeah, I'm not surprised being omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent or knowing or seeing or judging and all gorgeous. Now this is the reason you are here, the big whopper. This is the main event. So I want to hear all about your absolute worst side. Let's delve deep into your psyche, consult the devil on your shoulder and find a nugget of confessional gold. What have you brought me today, Zane? I want to hear a big dirty story. 

Zane Brightwell (12:15):

A big, dirty story. 

Lucie Isle (12:17):

Well, I would assume with you it's going to be dirty. 

Zane Brightwell (12:20):

Very rude. Okay, so like I said before, I used to be an escort and in one of my experiences escorting, I went to this gentleman's house who was about, I'd say about 23. Very sexy, very chavy, just my type. And I thought this is going to be nice and easy. We got down to it and then there was a big bang on the door and they just kept banging on the door and I was like, who is this? And he said, it's my girlfriend, you need to get into the bathroom. Now bear in mind I was in a little bit of lingeree and a really horrible ratty wig. We call it cumy wig. It's this little blonde bob and it has made me a lot of money over the years. So he said to me, I need to hide in the bathroom. Now this bathroom was, it was like something out of a Saw movie. 

(12:59)
The toilet was filthy and I'm pretty sure there might've been a dead body in the shower. Who knows? It smelt like it anyway, and the walls were minging, the sink was minging, the mirror was minging. All of it was horrible and I was just expecting a little puppet on a bike to come in and say, I want to play a game. That's what it felt like in that bathroom. I hid in this bathroom with the most anxiety ever. I was just in a little bob and the girl managed to get through into the bedroom and then she was banging on the bathroom door saying, I know you've got a girl in there. I know you've got a girl in there. I know you've got a girl in there. And I thought, she opens this door right now, she's going to be very surprised. So anyway, she left and I obviously thought, this is terrible. I didn't realise he'd had this girlfriend. I didn't know what to do. And then he said, we just get back to it. And of course I did. And I just think that wasn't very good of me. That wasn't very holy, that wasn't very lovely. 

Lucie Isle (13:51):

Thank you for confessing that. That's quite a big one. How do you feel now looking back on that event? 

Zane Brightwell (13:56):

I think it is quite entertaining in a way, but it wasn't the most professional of things to do in that situation. I think I probably should have just said, this is it. I need to go or left in a good manner. But then I could have ended up getting into an altercation, so could have ended up a lot worse. I was quite lucky that she never actually got into the bathroom. But yeah, I don't think I should have carried on the session. I should have definitely left at that point. 

Lucie Isle (14:18):

Could you not have pretended to be somebody else? 

Zane Brightwell (14:22):

In retrospect, I probably could have done because she's expecting there to be a girl in the bathroom. So I could have put on a very laddish voice and been, no, that's me. Do you know what I mean? 

Lucie Isle (14:34):

What would you have said? Okay, let's say you can go back and change the way that happened. What do you think you would do now? 

Zane Brightwell (14:39):

Well, I'd have to, I was in the bathroom, so I'd have to pretend that I was in there having a number two. Cause she'd have been waiting around for ages. I could have said, sorry, Darl, this toilet's occupied. Do you know what I mean?

Lucie Isle (14:50):

You might want to give this 10 minutes. Right. Where were we? Do you think your client would've wanted to have carried on though after you're like, oh, there's sweet corn in it

Zane Brightwell (15:01):

Yeah, probably not. Probably not. And I was thinking I had dollar signs, 

Lucie Isle (15:05):

So you were just chasing the dollar. 

Zane Brightwell (15:07):

That's it. 

Lucie Isle (15:08):

The big green money monster. Is that what you called your client? 

Zane Brightwell (15:13):

Yes, probably he was big and green. He spent a lot of money on me that day. I went back in the evening, 

Lucie Isle (15:20):

Maybe it was part of his thing. Oh, let's get this person round here. I'll pay them to do the deed and let's see how much they really want it. 

Zane Brightwell (15:29):

It wouldn't even surprise me if he texted his girlfriend and told her to come. It seems like he kind of got off on that a bit. Really. Well, he was ready to go as soon as she left. If I just cheated on my partner and then got caught in the act of doing it, the last thing I was want to be doing is boning somebody. You know what I mean? But he was ready to go. I think maybe it was part of his thrill, in which case I was there as a guardian angel to make sure that that thrill got sorted out. So maybe this isn't a confession. Maybe this is me doing good. 

Lucie Isle (15:52):

Yeah, maybe we should have just saved that for later. You're doing someone a service. 

Zane Brightwell:

I am, yeah. 

Lucie Isle:

Could you take your mind back to that incident? Let's say you opened up the door and you saw the woman on the other side and you were going to apologise to her. What would you say? 

Zane Brightwell (16:06):

I’d say I'm really sorry that your boyfriend wanted to pay me to sleep with him instead of you sleeping with him for free. I'm sorry that that happened to you. And I'm sorry that even with my ratty cumy wig hair, it still looked better than yours. 

Lucie Isle (16:19):

Wow, that's quite the apology.  

Zane Brightwell (16:21):

I'm really, really apologetic. 

Lucie Isle (16:22):

I was moved to tears and I'm sure she would've been as well. 

Zane Brightwell (16:25):

I told you I'm really nice. 

Lucie Isle (16:26):

You are really nice without a shadow of sarcasm. Yeah. Wow. Your soul is, you are not pure. You're fucked.

Zane Brightwell (16:34):

Yeah, that's it, isn't it? 

Lucie Isle (16:36):

You're a naughty they them. 

Zane Brightwell (16:37):

I am a naughty they them. 

Lucie Isle (16:40):

In your time as an escort, how many situations like that did you have where you found yourself in an uncomfortable, potentially dangerous situation? 

Zane Brightwell (16:49):

Only a couple of times. Really. That was probably the most time, that was when something could have happened. There have been a couple of unpleasant people, but I could hold my own. I'm from a council estate, people don't mess with me. I might look like a skinny weed, but I'll tell people off quite quickly. And I did see a lot of clients sometime that I did it. But it's also a very rewarding job. You get to just be a companion to some people. You get to help them out with what they're going through. 

Lucie Isle (17:15):

Are there ever any occasions where you'll go visit somebody for a cuddle? 

Zane Brightwell (17:20):

Yeah, I've had a couple of people that have bit me for that and they've paid me a lot of money for it. I've had one month pay me 300 pound for a 45 minute cuddle. 

Lucie Isle (17:26):

How’s that?

Zane Brightwell (17:27):

Gorgeous. You just have to listen to people. People just love talking about themselves. I know, I do. So helping people out when they just want to talk about themselves, you just getting paid to listen. 

Lucie Isle (17:38):

See, I was never hugged as a child. That's why I turned into a judgmental wench in a tiny wooden box judging souls. But I imagine hugging someone for 45 minutes is quite a privileged to be in. 

Zane Brightwell:

Yeah. When you just think of the money as well, then that gets you through it. It's like as soon as this next 15 minutes is up or this next 20 minutes is up, you've hit bank and it's gorgeous. 

Lucie Isle (17:58):

And in many ways a hug is actually a very intimate experience. You have to trust somebody a lot. You are at someone's mercy in a way. 

Zane Brightwell (18:06):

Yeah, absolutely.  

Lucie Isle (18:07):

A bit like this podcast. Oh god. It's like a little hug for the soul. 

Zane Brightwell (18:12):

Don't hug me unless you're paying me 300 pounds. I do not want to hug. 

Lucie Isle (18:16):

Oh, I'm not paying you. So you said you grew up in a council estate and people won't necessarily know you as Zane. They might know you as Zoe Promiscuous. Isn't that right? 

Zane Brightwell (18:26):

That is correct, yes. 

Lucie Isle (18:27):

Well, how would you describe your experience growing up? 

Zane Brightwell (18:30):

Well, I've always been a performer and that's what I always wanted to do. And it was in Dereham, which is a small town, and I think I was probably the only queer person in the town. I was always out the queer at school. I was out really queer in high school. I used to put on shows for the whole street. We had a broken divan bed outside our house. I'd make that into a stage and invite everyone from the street to come and see these shows that I'd put on. And I think that's kind of what I've took into my career now as a drag performer is that I'm just putting on the shows that I'd put on for my mom in the living room I'm doing on the stage for people. It's like I'm fully not qualified to be doing this shit that I'm doing, but I'm doing it. Do you know what I mean? 

Lucie Isle (19:06):

I can kind of imagine you as a kid with a big blonde wig on prancing around. 

Zane Brightwell (19:12):

But it's quite funny. I did a show a couple of weeks ago and my nursery teacher had come to watch it and they're like, I can't believe that you were literally putting on the Belle dress when you were in reception when you're two or three years old running around dressed as Belle from Beauty the Beast because you didn't want to be Batman. And then here you are on stage doing that as a job. It's just crazy how it's translated. 

Lucie Isle (19:31):

Yeah, you showed them

Zane Brightwell (19:32):

I showed them. 

Lucie Isle (19:34):

Were people supportive of you performing when you were growing up? 

Zane Brightwell (19:37):

I think, I dunno, my parents, my mom especially is very supportive and I've got a very supportive family in terms of my mom and my queer family. We all support each other, but I think growing up I kind of had to support myself, but in a way that it didn't bother me. I was a very lone wolf. And I think being a lone wolf, a grown up makes you a good part of the pack when you're older. I think if you're surrounded by people all the time, it can make you quite a difficult person to be around a lot when you get older. So I think having to sort things out for myself and be my own biggest fan when I was growing up helped me be a better person today, if that makes sense. 

Lucie Isle (20:15):

Yeah. And has that helped you with your career now in a big way? 

Zane Brightwell (20:20):

Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. I think definitely I am confident now and I had to give myself that confidence by just being outwardly me and being openly queer and being loud and being aggressive and not taking any shit. And then that's made me who I'm today. 

Lucie Isle (20:37):

Do you think that's had any negative implications on your life? 

Zane Brightwell (20:40):

Absolutely. I'm the biggest bitch in Norwich. I'm cancelled more times than I haven't got a bit for that, but I'm always getting cancelled. I'm outwardly spoken and I think people do see a problem with that sometimes.  

Lucie Isle (20:55):

Something like I’ve been cancelled more times than Liza Minnelli's credit card. 

Zane Brightwell (20:59):

She's buying another bloody wig. No, I think I can be quite outspoken and I quite enjoy being outspoken how I grew up. I got that tough love I've got people just say to me, if I was doing something and I didn't have a nail on, if I didn't have the wig right, I'd get told off for it. Especially when I was living in Gran Canaria area. They'd be like, no, that's not how it's right. So if I make a comment like that, everyone gets upset about it and I dunno why I'm helping them. I'm helping people at the core.

Lucie Isle (21:25):

In your heart of hearts, are you just the mother trying to look out for chicks? 

Zane Brightwell (21:31):

Maybe. But like I said before, I hate kids. I'm a mother that doesn't want children. 

Lucie Isle (21:40):

Maybe you don't see yourself as a parent to children. What about parent to people in your community, whether they're older than you or not? Because in drag and in queer circles you have chosen family, you have people who they're not related and it doesn't necessarily rely on age. You could be a mother to someone who's older than you. Can you relate to any of that? 

Zane Brightwell (21:59):

Yeah, I mean we do have a massive thing with queer family. You do get to choose your own family. And I think that especially with drag in the city, I've been doing it for a long time and I've got a lot of advice to give. I've got a lot of experience to give. So yeah, I think I would not say I'm a parent. I think it's good to be your own independent and that's what I've had to be. And I learned to be independent by advice that I got from more experienced people and I think that's something that I can offer. 

Lucie Isle (22:27):

And is there any advice you would give to say inexperienced performers that you think could help them on their way? 

Zane Brightwell (22:33):

Yeah, hone your craft. A lot of people like to perform, but the stage might not be for everyone straight away. I think it is really important with anything that you hone your craft. And that's what I had to do for the first four or five years of my career was really work out what I wanted to do on stage and work on my act and practise and redo the same things over and over again and work on my outfits, work on my looks, make things look cohesive, and then you can be ready for the stage. I think everyone just needs to hone their craft a bit and develop ideas they've already got, because I see a lot of things I'll see on stage. I'll see once then it's done. I think I'd like to see everyone develop and work on things. It makes it so much more enjoyable when you do it and when you've got it like that and you can just go out and you can do the same set to different audiences and they appreciate it. It's much more rewarding doing a really good job at something. 

Lucie Isle (23:39):

Well, you're not going to be a parent anytime soon, Zane. But I am going to make you an aunt. 

Zane Brightwell (23:44):

Great. I'm always the drunk Aunt at Christmas. So let's go for it. 

Lucie Isle (23:47):

This is the round where we team up to help some wretched mortals with their day-to-day problems. This is your chance to prove you're a good person by offering some guidance to my poor unfortunate listeners. So will you help them on their path with good advice or just be a complete prick? I don't know if you're going to be very good at this one because you can't even get boys to like you. But Evelyn asks, how do I get girls to like me? I mean, I'm still working that one out. I suppose you can apply that to, it doesn't have to be about girls does it? It's about connecting with other people. 

Zane Brightwell (24:24):

Yeah, I think stop worrying about getting people to like you and find a reason to them. Flip it on its head to stop worrying about yourself. Perfect. Find somebody that matches what you need 

Lucie Isle (24:37):

Rather than changing yourself to match what you think other people want. It's like work on yourself. Become confident, independent, the lone wolf. I think confident people attract people. 

Zane Brightwell (24:47):

Yeah, absolutely. 

Lucie Isle (24:49):

Yeah. Okay. It's a nice little warmup. Here's one from Jared says Auntie Lucie, should I transition? I really want to, so I'm going to assume that they're talking about transgender stuff. What do you think? What's your gut reaction? 

Zane Brightwell (25:05):

If you really want to then go for it. If you want to do something, then you should always do it. I think in this life, if you want to do something, you have to just do it. You've only got one life and if you don't want to do something for a long time, then you haven't got to do something for a long time. I think if I'm bored of anything for more than an hour, I'm not doing it. So if you just got to do what you want. 

Lucie Isle (25:31):

I get that question quite a lot. People asking, should I transition? And I think if you are a cisgender person, you don't necessarily ask that question. It's often, I think people ask the question because they want someone to decide for them. They want someone to give them a push to do the thing they already know that they want to do. And I think that can apply to loads of things. Some people say, should I look for a new job? Yes, probably if you're asking that question, look for a new job. But maybe what they're saying is it's scary to take a jump. I dunno how it's going to go. Can someone help me make a decision? But ultimately I think you have to make a decision for yourself. Yeah. 

Zane Brightwell (26:06):

Take control and take ownership of your own life. 

Lucie Isle (26:09):

What should I plant in my garden? Jenny wants to know what should I plant in my garden? 

Zane Brightwell (26:16):

Trees. Vegetables. You never know when there's going to be a zombie apocalypse. You might need some of your own fruit and veg. So vegetables, tomatoes, I dunno what can grow. I've never planted anything. 

Lucie Isle (26:26):

A nice tall tree to hide. 

Zane Brightwell (26:28):

Can you grow bananas here? 

Lucie Isle (26:30):

In I think a climate controlled condition. I don't think bananas are native.

Zane Brightwell (26:37):

I love bananas. 

Lucie Isle:

You love bananas? 

Zane Brightwell:

I do. I have about three a day. I just love a banana. 

Lucie Isle (26:41):

That’s a great quote, I just love a banana. 

Zane Brightwell (26:44):

I just love a banana. 

Lucie Isle (26:46):

Yeah. Hide up a tree and eat carrots from your own garden whilst the zombies eat.

Zane Brightwell (26:50):

They don't grow on trees. 

Lucie Isle (26:52):

No, but you can hide up a tree with them

Zane Brightwell (26:53):

Oh right, this is going somewhere again. 

Lucie Isle (26:56):

We don’t have to do the garden. 

Zane Brightwell (26:57):

I'm getting really hungry now. 

Lucie Isle (26:58):

Here's one. Okay, so this question's in from friends. Hello Auntie Lucy. I've recently come out as lesbian after ending a long-term relationship with a cis man. Absolutely. No one was surprised and it's something I've known for a long time. Do you have any advice on how to combat the total self invalidation going on in my head? Your local anxious lesbian. 

Zane Brightwell (27:18):

So a lot of lesbians writing in. You've got a big lesbian fan base, haven't you? 

Lucie Isle (27:23):

Yeah, yeah. 

Zane Brightwell (27:24):

We like a lesbian. Lesbians love a cat. So be prepared to cats. Surround yourself with people who are in your boat. Find your own boat and you can change boats all the time. I have in the past year jumped to ship and surrounded myself with people who benefit what I would like out of life. So that's what you got to do is find a new tribe. They'll help you become more confident in a certain circle. And if you've gone from being in a straight cis relationship and then going into a whole new identity, it doesn't mean that you have to leave that one behind because their sexuality is so fluid. So it's not like you've completely changing your life and being completely anxious about it. Just surround yourself with people who are in your boat. 

Lucie Isle (28:07):

Have you come out at all in any way in recent years? 

Zane Brightwell (28:13):

Kind of. Yeah, a bit. I mean, I came out as gay when I was, I think 12. But I think we all knew before that I told my mom when I was six that I loved Aladdin and he's still the sexiest one out of all the Disney films. I love Aladdin, I love a thief. And then I came out as non-binary, but I don't think I ever really had to come out as anything. I'd like it to be a point where we don't have to. I did, I put it on Facebook. I told people that I go by lay them pronouns just because I was getting bored of being called he. But I never really had to come out to my family, to myself and my family are my queer family. I've got a really close relationship with my mum, but the rest of my family are my queer family. 

(28:53)
So I was always just instantly accepted, but I had to kind of work out what it was. I knew that I was non-binary. I knew that I didn't identify as either a man or a woman. I didn't identify as something right in the middle. I like to flip through gender. I like to just eradicate it and I don't see it in other people either. When I'm seeing somebody, I'm just seeing a person. And I think that's why I've always had that kind of understanding. But I think, yeah, I had to surround myself with queer people who understood that. And everyone who I'm friends with now does understand that. So there's no issues, no dramas. 

Lucie Isle (29:28):

So it was quite apparent to Mama Zane from an early age at the Aladdin loving bell of the ball dancing on a sofa in the street was maybe just a touch queer 

Zane Brightwell (29:40):

A little bit. Yeah. Well, my mom loved it. When my mum was pregnant with me, she had me at 17, so she was very young. But when she gave birth to me and they said, it's a boy, she said, put it back in. I want a girl. And now she's got the best of both worlds. We've grown up and I'm literally best friends. I talk to her for at least half an hour every day. And she's fun and she's cool and she's always been there for the queer. So when I said that I was gay, she was like, yeah, duh, I raised you this way. 

Lucie Isle (30:09):

This one comes from Tramps Like Us. I'm about to have a very big, see, I think this is actually right up your street. I'm about to have a very big, very queer 30th birthday party. Is it smart inviting family members who don't know I am? 

Zane Brightwell (30:24):

No. Birthday parties. Do two have have one for your family? Go for a dinner with your family with those who might be a bit judgmental and then have a separate one for people who are on your level because you'll be anxious, you'll be worried about what people are thinking and you won't be able to enjoy yourself. And it's you're only 30 months and that's a big one. So yeah, I'd have dinner with the more reserved of people because we shouldn't have to hide who we are. But then you need to be comfortable and you need to be enjoying yourself. And if you did want to tell these people is a party the best way to do it? If there is for you, then maybe, yeah. But if you did want to come out to these people or want to do it in this way, I think maybe doing it in a bit more of a calmer situation where drugs and alcohol might not be involved. And when you're not with crazy queer people, do this situation in a comfortable way for yourself. 

Lucie Isle (31:17):

I feel like that's really sound practical advice. And I know a lot of people will say things like, you've got to be unapologetically queer. Don't hide who you are and that kind of thing. But from personal experience, sometimes you just need to give yourself a little bit of space to be yourself around your friends. But sometimes with family, it can just be damage limitation. 

Zane Brightwell (31:36):

Especially in a places like where we are from in Norfolk, we're in a very white conservative part of the country. You need to be mindful that the way you think isn't the way that people think. And because we are being brought up in a complete different age and these other people were brought up and sometimes it's not even the old people. I've had old people who are far more accepted to me than young people. But everyone has a different upbringing. I think if you are being yourself and that's gorgeous and you can be yourself as much as you want to be yourself, but then you need to be mindful that people can't always digest you straight away and you have to train people to digest you. Then when they do, they do have with me with people in my family. They love me for who I am. But when I first came out, they were like, oh, this isn't what we want. But now they're accepting. You've got to teach people and use the queer experience as education, but you can't expect everyone to be on your side straight away. That's not rallying. 

Lucie Isle (32:26):

This one's from going potty. Dear Auntie Lucie, how can I stop my coworkers telling me about their children every damn day? I get potty updates for fuck's sake. 

Zane Brightwell (32:39):

Children are the devil. They really are. But you kind of just got to be honest. You just got to say to 'em, look, I don't care about your child. I think it's lovely you have them, but I don't need to hear about it all the time. 

Lucie Isle (32:52):

How do you think that would go down in it works setting? 

Zane Brightwell (32:54):

I dunno. But you've just got to kind of, you've got to be unapologetic. If you want something done and you want somebody to listen, you've just got to be stern. You can't be dancing around the subject. Most advice places would say you've got to do it in a nice way. No, tell 'em straight out, I don't want to hear about your child. I'm sorry. 

Lucie Isle (33:12):

You are someone who will speak honestly regardless of the consequences I feel. Yeah, 

Zane Brightwell (33:16):

Absolutely. 

Lucie Isle (33:17):

I mean, what do they just get their own obsession and sort of hit back at the coworkers with it? That could 

Zane Brightwell (33:24):

Be camp actually. That could be funny. But make it find something that that person hates. Oh, this is where you're going to make me sound like this is where I'm going to go to hell. So you find something that person hates and then bring it into the workplace in conversation. Pictures of it, put it on their desk, whatever it might be that they don't like. 

Lucie Isle (33:42):

Stick insects. 

Zane Brightwell (33:43):

Yeah, cover the place of them 

Lucie Isle (33:44):

And name it after their child. Yeah, my little green stick wiggler is be lovely. Here's him on his second month anniversary. Oh, isn't he big? Look at him clinging to the trees. He loves Eucalyptus. 

Zane Brightwell (33:58):

Second month anniversary. God, I hate that anniversary literally means a year. 

Lucie Isle (34:07):

So this is bringing us to the end of our session together today, Zane. And so I want to know, do you have any last words? This is your last chance to repent. Show me your most loving, kind and altruistic side before I pass judgement . 

Zane Brightwell (34:22):

I think I've done this throughout the podcast today. I'm very nice. I might come across as a bit brash and a bit harsh, but I'm genuinely just a lovely person and I'll do anything for anybody within reason. But I will do anything for anybody within reason. 

Lucie Isle (34:37):

Well, on a personal level, I do like you Zane, but my opinion's not what matters. It's the big girl upstairs who decides your fate. Really. I'm just a messenger. So let's take it all into consideration. You're a loving, kind, and honest person. You've had an interesting and challenging upbringing. You've had your fair share of trials and tribulations. You will give people advice and help them out even if it's not what they want to hear, which is a pretty admirable trait actually. But then there was a lot of dick. That's not a bad thing, but there were a lot of naughty things along the way too, weren't there, Zane? 

Zane Brightwell (35:16):

Yeah. 

Lucie Isle (35:16):

Yeah. 

Zane Brightwell (35:17):

I was just making most of this life that I had 

Lucie Isle (35:19):

From your times entertaining the people on your street with free performances to hitting the stages of Norwich, London and beyond your time on the circle bed in Gran Canaria, 21. That's a lot, but I don't want to shame anyone. What you do between you and the consenting 21 other adults is completely between you and the 21 other adults. That'll be happening when I'm in heaven anyway. It will. And do I really want to encourage that kind of behaviour? So after much deliberation, I have decided that I condemn you to hell. 

Speaker 4 (35:55):

No!! So many children everywhere running around with their snotty hands get away from me just getting into my crevices, into the nooks and the crannies. 

Lucie Isle (36:07):

Enjoy your eternity of flames, children, and sand. See you never.